captain_slinky: (Default)
[personal profile] captain_slinky
Do you stop thinking about Doctor Who during the off-season? Do you pack away your Buffy T-Shirts, Toys and Posters and wait till the next Joss Whedon televison series is upon us to start putting it all up again? Do you complain when you see Star Trek stuff on sale when it's still at least a YEAR away from a new movie? You might do that, but you'd be the exception that proves a rule.

So why should people be expected to enjoy Christmas for just one month each year, and why do people get so ANGRY when it starts showing up a month ahead of time?

There are more people who celebrate Christmas than celebrate Davies, Whedon, Roddenberry and Lucas combined! I'm surprised we don't have Christmas Shops open 24/7 all year long!

Date: 2011-11-08 08:38 pm (UTC)
yshaloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yshaloo
There are some Christmas shops open year round. You just have to look for them. The Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge/Sevierville area has a handful of them.

Date: 2011-11-08 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
So then why do you suppose that people throw such a hissy-fit when Toys R Us sends out a Christmas Catalog the week after Halloween?

Date: 2011-11-08 09:10 pm (UTC)
yshaloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yshaloo
I get annoyed when stores start putting out their Christmas stuff BEFORE Halloween. However, I LOVE Halloween and think it deserves to take up half of every store.

But AFTER Halloween, have at it. It gives me a chance to budget out my shopping over several pay periods instead of going crazy all at once. I'm actually looking forward to shopping this year. I've decided to start now so that I can both put thought into the gifts AND try to find decent prices on them.

Date: 2011-11-08 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenpear.livejournal.com
I'm just tired of the crass commercialism that Christmas has become. That is why I don't care for it. My favorite part of Christmas is our visit to my aunt's house on Christmas Eve. It has nothing to do with gifts and everything to do with visiting.

Date: 2011-11-08 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
Are you also tired of the crass commercialism of Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc? Or do you reserve your judgement for just things with the Green & Red Motif?

To me, Christmas is just another Fandom. I'm a fan of visiting my Aunt's house ANY time of the year, not just on one particular day; Further, I don't get upset if somebody starts talking about going to my Aunt's house a few months before we go.

I guess where I'm getting at is this; why is Crass Commercialism frowned upon for Christmas but not for every other beloved/cherished shared cultural moment of our lives?

Date: 2011-11-08 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenpear.livejournal.com
Christmas I like. It's the "You gotta buy bigger, better than anyone else" attitude.

I think The Charlie Brown Christmas is coming up soon. Linus says it all. And to boot, I'm not even Christian and that's still the best message ever.

Date: 2011-11-09 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
Once again I feel that my analogy is apt here. When I see an ad for a screen-perfect reproduction museum quality Lightsaber for sale I'd never say "STOP CRAMMING YOUR BUY BUY BUY MESSAGES DOWN MY THROAT YOU'RE RUINING STAR WARS FOR ME!!!" and would more likely say "OMG I want that so bad I wish I could afford it somebody needs to buy it for meeeeeeee!"

I haven't seen any of the "Bigger Better" personally except for on Discovery Channel specials like "WORLDS MOST INSANE CHRISTMAS DISPLAYS" and the likes. Only messages I get tired of each year are "It's Not About The Presents", "Christmas starts earlier every year", "It's so over-commercialized now" and "Jesus Is The Reason For The Season" which everybody likes to whip out these ones every year as if they're something new that nobody has ever had the courage to say before, and by them uttering it will then absolve them of any association with this monster.

Date: 2011-11-09 01:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenpear.livejournal.com
Everyone has their own view of the situation.

Although why do some people get upset when I tell them I celebrate the Solstice, not Christmas.

Date: 2011-11-09 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
Same people who get upset over you celebrating the Solstice are likely the same ones who are upset that we celebrate Halloween, don't have kids pray in class, have a Black Man as President, etc...

Date: 2011-11-09 01:22 am (UTC)
aurora77: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aurora77
A historian commented recently in another community that she found "Christmas has become commercialized" comments in old letters, some dating as far back to the early Victorian era. It seems every generation starts to think Christmas has become more and more commercialized.

Maybe it has. But I still think each person can make a conscious choice to accept the parts they like and reject the parts they don't.

I'm not a huge consumer. I'll buy a few things I really want to give to family members. I prefer little hand-made gifts, holiday parties (egg nog and baked goodies!), or sharing experiences (like a play or the Nutcracker), a few nice decorations, and watching new and classic holiday specials. While there are a lot of companies out there looking to cash in on it, I prefer to think of all the opportunities we now have due to technology that we didn't have before. I get to share a fun experience online with friends in early December. I can find great new and old holiday music online. I can print my own cards easily.

And some of the items that were once part of that commercialism have now become beloved collectibles (like some of the lovely 50's ornaments). A favorite holiday special for many is Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, which started as part of a marketing campaign from Montgomery Ward.

Sorry, I think I'm just babbling now...

Date: 2011-11-09 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sasjhwa.livejournal.com
Be warned. You asked for my opinion and I'm going to give it. As is often the case I'm polar opposite from you. Don't take any of it personally please. My beef isn't with you.
*
*
*

The difference to me is volume. Doctor Who and Star Trek don't scream at me for three months. I can turn them off and enjoy them when I want. Christmas is everywhere I turn from before Halloween until the end of the after Christmas sales.

Not only do we have to put up with it at the stores but it is piped through most Musak players, radio stations and TV channel our family. Almost every show has a Christmas episode, and every holiday episode and Christmas special from past years (and decades) is dragged out of the vault to throw at us again. Not even Star Wars is that overwhelming. It is like a bulldozer to society.

I can also choose to like Whedon or Lucas or whoever. Or not. But woe betide the Grinch who doesn't enjoy 3 months of constant advertisements and music he doesn't like. God would help the Scrooge who has enough money to buy presents for his extended family but chooses to make thoughtful gifts instead, but God has only a passing relationship with Christmas. It is a sin in our society to not like Christmas.

It is my LEAST favorite holiday of the year. The commercialism plays a role, yes. But it is the sheer weight of its "love the season or I will shove it down your throat until you surrender or your farts smell like peppermint and artificial pine tree" presentation that makes me want to just scream.

Date: 2011-11-09 02:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
The argument can be summed-up as being my point exactly from the second and third sentences - "Doctor Who and Star Trek don't scream at me for three months. I can turn them off and enjoy them when I want.". And yet if I try to bust out the Christmas Tunes at *ANY TIME* other than those three months, I'm the one who needs help.

You're allowed to like whatever you like whenever you like and enjoy it any day of any week of any month - Unless it's Christmas. Then you're only allowed to like it from the day after Thanksgiving till the first of the year, and woe betide the nutjob who even thinks of humming "Jingle Bells" while sipping a Peppermint Latte on November 1st.

Why is that?

Date: 2011-11-09 06:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sasjhwa.livejournal.com
Yes, I do get upset hearing Christmas music in public in say the summer. God invented headphones so he wouldn't have to listen to Deck the Halls at his 4th of July BBQ.

If you want to listen to it by all means do. What you do in your own house and under the protection of your headphones is entirely up to you. Just don't force the rest of us to. There is enough "Christmas" crammed into November - January that for the majority of people they are burned out on it unit the next year. It has to have a chance to go away. Otherwise it loses any special-ness.

As for Christmas music specifically there is very little of it that I actually enjoy on even an artistic level. I enjoy many singers, but not those songs. Imagine there was some musical style you really didn't like. Now make a holiday around it that dominates the airwaves for 2 months. That is almost all you hear everywhere you go. There is no escaping it. But you endure it because you know that at the end of those 2 months it will be imprisoned again for the next 10 months and you can live free of it again. But then 6 months later, like a felon out on unexpected parole you hear it again. Life ceases to be merry and bright. That is how I feel about Christmas music. With the exception of a few (less than a handful) songs I think the world would be a better place without them. But that is just my opinion.

Date: 2011-11-09 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
Also, here's a Catch-22 for both sides of the debate: Christmas Lover gives Christmas Hater a card and a candy cane, Christmas Hater says "Oh man I HATE Christmas stuff!" so Christmas Lover, not wanting to make Christmas Hater hate Christmas even more, takes Christmas Hater off her list of people to hand out Christmas stuff to. So the next round of Christmas stuff comes out (cookies), and Christmas Hater doesn't get anything which makes him say "HEY why don't I get a Cookie just because I said I hate Christmas YEESH!" so then Christmas Lover gives Christmas Hater a cookie and Christmas Hater says "I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU I DON'T LIKE CHRISTMAS STUFF!!!" but eats the cookie and so Christmas Lover keeps bringing the cookies and giving them to Christmas Hater who then eats them while complaining about how much he hates them.

Christmas Lover is stuck thinking that Christmas Hater secretly loves Christmas.

Christmas Hater is stuck thinking that Christmas Lover is cramming Christmas down his throat despite his constant protest.

No one can win :(

Date: 2011-11-09 05:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nani-ka.livejournal.com
But, Thanksgiving is the Foodie Olympics! Where you get the food! Obsess about the food! Then cook it ALL! then eat some of it! and feed anyone who doesn't run fast enough! Then put away the leftovers & cook/eat from it for the next week and a half!

!!!!!!

Once i've had my turkey then Christmas can begin. Especially the bit where a whole ham gets roasted. I'm kinda fond of that part.

Date: 2011-11-09 02:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
I've mentioned it before and will say it again here; Thanksgiving is the Christmas Rehearsal Dinner. Thanksgiving is the day to finalize the menu, figure out which side dishes you need to work on a bit, test a few new recipe theories... make sure everything is PERFECT for The Main Event, Christmas Dinner :)

Date: 2011-11-10 07:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nani-ka.livejournal.com
No! Thanksgiving is Turkey, Christmas is Ham. Two entirely different trees involved.

Date: 2011-11-10 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captain-slinky.livejournal.com
We usually do *both Turkey *AND* Ham on both holidays... A Turkey & Ham Gravy is pretty darned incredible :)

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